AA Composite Models

[Mikey MKIV]

So all i have seen is just complaints about the new composite models. I only ask these questions because I do not own one yet, but I will have official opinions once I acquire one. But do these offer anything that people like better? I remember reading that shut lines and gaps are supposed to be much cleaner and tighter. Also, weight is comparable due to having metal underneath comp body.

Anyways, all I have read is that they feel light/cheap, paint has less depth and everyone is disappointed with the model they have gotten. Is this all true? This seems to be an important question to ask since it looks like most new models will be of these materials.

Mike

[StratosWRC]

I wouldn't be convinced by fake weight. If the weight of the model comes from the materials used, that's great. But if it's literally just a ballast to create the false illusion of quality, I have no idea why anyone would fall for that. All it does is add to the cost of shipping.

[Mikey MKIV]

That is true, I personally dont feel (until I actually hold one) that light weight is really an issue. If it spends 99% of its life inside a case, who cares if its not a thicker die cast body? I am only concerned if it actually looks cheap, or breaks easy.

[[KRAFTIG]]

Is this all true?

Absolutely true, I one a few, worst (using lightly) to date is the Huracan. The opening bits feel cheap and fragile. The paint is not the same either. I think that is dues to the paint process. They need to figure out how to prep/prime the model before the true finish paint is applied.

[Model Maniac]

I have the Alfa 4C. It looks great. That' my only good comment. When I was removing it from the box, I gently placed my thumb on the roof and it flexed in, with hardly any pressure. I could have easily crushed it in with no effort. The opening parts (doors, hood, etc.) must be handled very gently as it would take nothing at all to break them off completely. Like I said, it looks great, and if AA were selling the composites for around or under $70.00US, I'd be all in. Anything over that is way over priced!

[458]

Have 2 Huracan's so far, they do look very good, but as said you do have to be a bit timid with them. No way they should be like $190 cdn etc. I have no problems with the shut lines & the look of the model. Be great for $100 cdn, which I thought when introduced they were supposed to be.

[[KRAFTIG]]

I have the Alfa 4C. It looks great. That' my only good comment. When I was removing it from the box, I gently placed my thumb on the roof and it flexed in, with hardly any pressure. I could have easily crushed it in with no effort. The opening parts (doors, hood, etc.) must be handled very gently as it would take nothing at all to break them off completely. Like I said, it looks great, and if AUTOart were selling the composites for around or under $70.00US, I'd be all in. Anything over that is way over priced!

I think the Alfa is better than the Huracan In my opinion.

[458]

$100us is about $125 cdn

[[KRAFTIG]]

I fail to grasp time and time again two things on this forum. (there are actually three things, but the third is not related to the topic)
Why would you compare prices from when 100US dollars were almost the same in Canadian Dollars with prices now, when 100US Dollars is almost 150 Canadien?
And the other thing is why do you expect that just by substituting the material used in about 10% of the model, should lower its price by half? Absolutely everything on a diecast Huracan and a composite one would be the same. The cost of development, engineering, tooling, production time etc. Except that on one of them the shell AND ONLY THE SHELL is made from different material. Everything else is just as it has been until now.

Look I respect your opinion, or fact whatever you want to call it. IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE MONEY! When others are manufacturing models and supposedly making margin/profit I need to speak my peace. It seems they taken cost out to either keep margin whole or increase them. Their composite series is commanding a premium, but we collectors are left with a sub-par model based on past successes. IT'S ABOUT CHOOSING TO PAY THE PREMIUM AND HAVE A MODEL YOU CAN BE PROUD OF. No remorse of second guessing...

From a resin perspective GTS and OttO are in fact kicking ass with respectable price points and great execution. Seems they are making a living at it. No? Unless you're a "niche" limited production manufacture, should you not be embarrassed for charging 3-4 times as much, no?

From a diecast perspective there are many, but I'll use one example I've experienced this week with the recent Paragon DIECAST model of BMW M4 Coupe (review coming) I acquired for less $100CND. Fit and finish are excellent. Opening bits, detailed motor and interior. Though it doesn't have the AUTOart hinge work and struts on the hood front and rear. If you're going to come back at tell me the cost to add these elements is another $80-$100 you're nuts!

AUTOart being the company of record with their experience, backing, piece of the scale model pie, and tender should be able to provide great, detailed models at an affordable price. All are true expect the retail, it keeps going north. Yes the dollar is some parts of the world isn't as strong BUT this has been an issue for longer. They should have practices in place and leverage with factories to acquire the commodities and labour at the best possible price.

[Canadian Wrench Head]

I had a talk with Derek from Toronto Motorsports today. What a super guy he is, always willing to take time and chat over the phone with such insight and enthusiasm.
Anyways, we talked about the new Kyosho resin Ferrari series, BBR resin Ferraris and the new composite Auto Art models. He explained to me all about the cost of molds for die cast vs resin/composite and the amount of models that companies had to make to recoup. Even before I gave me opinion of AA composites( which I have yet too see in the flesh) he had a very positive opinion on them compared to AA die cast explaining why. I told him that from just the photos of the Huracan I had seen it looked actually quite nice and he confirmed this. His opinion was that AA was making less models since the molds for the composites are cheaper then die cast holds and the amount of "waste" during manufacturing was a lot less then die cast there by saving them more money.
Using BBR as an example he explained the cost of a BBR mold(he figured $10,000) and the amount of models at a certain price that it take to recoup that money and also make them money. Then he did the same with an AA die cast mold($100,000 he figured) and how many they have to produce to make a profit. So if the composite mold is cheaper and they charge more then they can make less......maybe this is the direction AA is going now??

......anyways, I will probably get lynched for writing this even if it wasn't my opinion but I enjoyed my conversation with him and it was very interesting to hear his opinion on this subject.

[Model Maniac]

You just contradicted yourself. At the end you state the Auotart mold is cheaper, yet you stated the Derek estimated the BBR mold at $10,000 and he estimated the Autoart at $100,00. Either that makes the AA mold 10 times MORE expensive, or you made a typo.

[Model Maniac]

I fail to grasp time and time again two things on this forum. (there are actually three things, but the third is not related to the topic)
Why would you compare prices from when 100US dollars were almost the same in Canadian Dollars with prices now, when 100US Dollars is almost 150 Canadien?
And the other thing is why do you expect that just by substituting the material used in about 10% of the model, should lower its price by half? Absolutely everything on a diecast Huracan and a composite one would be the same. The cost of development, engineering, tooling, production time etc. Except that on one of them the shell AND ONLY THE SHELL is made from different material. Everything else is just as it has been until now.

Then why the increasing prices?

[Canadian Wrench Head]

that $100,000 estimate was for the AA diecast mold.......not the new composite that is more then likely cheaper. How much, who knows??

.......once again, not my opinion, someone else who knows A LOT more then me. Just sharing it since the OP asked a question

[Canadian Wrench Head]

interesting......

[Atalante]

What you say is all very true, well except this:

So the only savings that a DIECAST MANUFACTURER sees by switching from metal bodies to plastic is in the cost of material itself.

The inevitable "molding trees" and other burrs found on die-cast parts have to be trimmed, deburred and polished for a perfect final result. This is a time consuming, labor intensive and messy operation that is quite costly at the end. I remember on the Autoart website they have some video of this deburing process, all done by hand. In comparison trimming the plastic molding runners is almost a breeze. With the ever increasing labor costs in China there is much to save by going plastic. Then also diecast parts are not as smooth and fine as plastic so they need a proper preparation and a special painting process to achieve the nice finish we can see on their models. The paint on composite models is both thinner and easier to apply so there is also much to save here again. One can argue that composite models still have a diecast base but let's be honest this does not require half the finishing work required on bodies and opening bits. And in the end the frame will be painted in matt black. Autoart has much to gain with composite-plastic and for sure staying in business and making money is their main goal.